Plato's Republic in Modern Scots

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Book 3, Part 2

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Socrates - GLAUCON

I wid be feart, said Glaucon, lauchin', that the wirds 'every yin' disnae really include me, for I cannae say jist noo whit they should be; though I micht hae a wee guess.

At any rate ye can tell that a sang or ode has three parts - the wirds, the melody, and the rhythm; that much knowledge I can expect ye tae hae?

Aye, he said; that much ye can.

An as for the wirds, there surely cannae be ony difference atween wirds that are and arenae set tae music; baith will need tae follow the same rules, and these hae already been decided by us?

Aye.

An the melody and rhythm will depend on the wirds?

Certainly.

We were sayin', whan we spoke o' the subject matter, that we didnae need ony lamentations and strains o' sadness?

True.

An whilk harmonies express sorrow? You ken aboot music, and can tell me.

The harmonies ye mean are the mixed or tenor Lydian, and the full-toned or bass Lydian, and sic like.

These then, I said, maun be banned; even for wimmen wha hae a character tae maintain they're nae use, and far less for men. Absolutely.

Next, drunkenness and softness and laziness are utterly unbecomin' for oor guardians.

Utterly unbecomin'.

An whilk are the soft or drinkin' harmonies?

The Ionian, he replied, and the Lydian; they're cried 'relaxed.'

Well, and are these ony use for war?

Quite the opposite, he replied; and if sae the Dorian and the Phrygian are the only yins that ye hae left.

I answered: I ken naething aboot the harmonies, but I wid like there tae be yin for war, tae sound the note or emphasis that a brave man uses in the hour o' danger and stearn determination, or whan his cause is failin', and he's gaun tae face wounds or death or is owertaken by some ither evil, and at every sic crisis meets the blows o' fate wi' a firm step and a determination tae endure; and anither tae be used by him in times o' peace and freedom o' action, whan there's nae pressure o' need, and he's seekin' tae persuade God by prayer, or man by instruction and admonition, or on the ither haund, whan he's expressin' his willingness tae yield tae persuasion or entreaty or admonition, and whilk represents him whan by prudent conduct he has attained his end, no gettin' carried away by his success, but actin' moderately and wisely under the circumstances, and acceptin' the event. These twa harmonies I ask ye tae leave; the strain o' need and the strain o' freedom, the strain o' the unfortunate and the strain o' the fortunate, the strain o' courage, and the strain o' temperance; these, I say, leave.

And these, he replied, are the Dorian and Phrygian harmonies that I wis jist speakin' aboot.

Then, I said, if these and only these are tae be used in oor sangs and melodies, we winnae need a wheen o' notes or a scale wi' aw the harmonies possible?

I wid imagine no.

Then we winnae keep the fowk wha mak lyres wi' three corners and complex scales, or the makers o' ony ither instruments wi' mony strings and ootlandish harmonies?

Certainly no.

But whit dae ye say aboot flute-makers and flute players? Wid ye alloo them intae oor state whan ye consider that in this mixed-up wey o' usin' harmony the flute is waur than aw the string instruments pit thegither; even the music wi' aw the harmonies possible is only an imitation o' the flute?

Clearly no.

There remains then only the lyre and the harp for use in the city, and the shepherds can hae a pipe in the country.

That's surely the conclusion tae be drawn frae the argument.

Preferrin' Apollo and his instruments tae Marsyas and his instruments isnae strange ava, I said.

Not at all, he replied.

An so, by the dog o' Egypt, we've been unconsciously cleanin' oot the state, which no lang syne we cried luxurious.

And we've done wisely, he replied.

Then let's noo finish the cleanin' oot, I said. Next in order tae harmonies, rhythms will naturally follow, and they should be subject tae the same rules, for we sudnae seek oot complex systems o' metre, or metres o' every kind, but rather tae discover whit rhythms are the expressions o' a courageous and harmonious life; and whan we've found them, we shall adapt the fit an the melody tae wirds havin' a like spirit, no the wirds tae the fit and melody. Tae say whit these rhythms are will be yer duty --ye maun teach me them, as ye've already taught me the harmonies.

But, indeed, he replied, I cannae tell ye. I only ken that there are some three principles o' rhythm oot o' whilk metrical systems are framed, jist as in sounds there are fower notes oot o' whilk aw the harmonies are composed; that's an observation that I've made. But o' whit sort o' lives they are severally the imitations I am unable tae say.

Then, I said, we maun tak Damon intae oor cooncils; and he'll tell us whit rhythms are expressive o' meanness, or impudence, or fury, or ither sic wickedness, and whit are tae be reserved for expressin' the opposite feelings. An I think I hae a wee, dim memory o' him mentionin' a complex Cretic rhythm; an aa a dactylic or heroic ane, and he ordered them in some wey that I dinnae quite understand, makin' the rhythms equal in the rise and fa' o' the fit, lang and short alternatin'; an, unless I'm mistaken, he spoke o' an iambic as well as a trochaic rhythm, and assigned short and lang quantities tae them. An aa in some cases he seemed tae praise or blame the movement o' the fit juist as much as the rhythm; or maybe a combination o' the twa; for I'm no sure whit he meant. These things, however, as I wis sayin', wid be better referred tae Damon himsel, for analysin' the hale thing wid be a tricky business, as ye ken.

That's true enough, I wid say.

But there's nae difficulty in seein' that grace or the lack o' grace comes fae guid or bad rhythm.

Nae bother ava.

An aa that guid and bad rhythm naturally gang wi' a guid and bad style; and that harmony and discord in the same wey follae style; for oor main principle is that rhythm and harmony are controlled by the wirds, and no the wirds by them.

Juist sae, he said, they sud follae the wirds.

An winnae the wirds and the character o' the style depend on the mood o' the soul?

Aye.

An everything else on the style?

Aye.

Then beauty o' style and harmony and grace and guid rhythm depend on simplicity, - I mean the true simplicity o' a mind and character that's weel-ordered and noble, no that ither simplicity that's juist a posh way o' sayin' stupidity?

Very true, he replied.

An if oor young fowk are tae dae their job in life, maun they no mak these graces and harmonies their constant aim?

They maun.

An surely the airt o' the painter and every ither creative and biggin art are foos o' them - weavin', embroidery, biggin' hooses, and every kind o' makin' things; an aa nature, wee beasties and plants - in aw o' them there's grace or the lack o't. And ugliness and discord and sounds that dinnae fit thegither are near σχετιζειν (scheti zein) - akin - tae ill words and a dour nature, juist as grace and harmony are the twin sisters o' goodness and virtue and bear their likeness.

That's absolutely true, he said.

But shoud oor oversight no gang any further, and are the poets only tae be required by us tae express the image o' the guid in their wark, on pain o' bein' kicked oot o' oor state if they dae onything else? Or is the same control tae be extendit tae ither artists, an are they aa tae be banned frae showin' the opposite forms o' vice and intemperance and meanness and indecency in statues and biggins and the ither creative arts; an is he wha cannae fit in wi' this rule o' ours tae be stoppit frae practicin' his airt in oor state, lest the taste o' oor citizens be corrupted by him? We widnae want oor guardians growin' up amang images o' moral ugliness, like bein' in some poisonous field, whaur they wid puckle and feed on mony a deadly herb and flower day efter day, wee by wee, until they silently gather a festerin' mass o' corruption in their ain soul. Let oor artists be mair like fowk wha are gifted tae see the true nature o' the bonnie and graceful; then oor young fowk will bide in a land o' health, amang braw sichts and sounds, and receive the good in everything; and beauty, the ootpourin' o' braw wark, shall flow intae the ee and lug, like a health-givin' breeze frae a purer area, and gently draw the soul frae the earliest years intae a likeness and sympathy wi' the beauty o' reason.

There can be nae nobler trainin' than that, he replied.

An therefore, I said, Glaucon, musical trainin' is a mair powerful instrument than ony ither, because rhythm and harmony find their wey intae the inner depths o' the soul, whaur they grip on michty strong, giein' grace, and makin' the soul o' him wha is properly edjucaited graceful, or o' him wha is ill-edjucaited ungraceful; an aa because he wha has received this true education o' the inner bein' will maist cleverly perceive onythin' missin' or wrang in airt and nature, and wi' a true taste, while he praises and rejoices over and taks intae his soul the guid, and becomes noble and guid, he will juistly blame and hate the bad, now in the days o' his youth, even before he is able tae ken the reason why; and when reason comes he will recognise and welcome the friend that his education has made him lang familiar wi'.

Aye, he said, I absolutely agree wi' ye that oor young fowk shuid be trained in music for the reasons ye mentioned.

Juist like learnin' tae read, I said, we were happy yin we kent the letters o' the alphabet, whilk are nae that mony, in aw their shapes and sizes and hou they come thegither; no disrespectin' them as unimportant whether they're big or wee, but aye keen tae mak them oot; and no thinkin' oorsels peffect in the airt o' readin' until we recognise them wherever they are:

True eneuch --

Or, as we recognise the reflection o' letters in the watter, or in a mirror, only whan we ken the letters themsels; the same skill and study giein' us the knowledge o' baith:

Exactly --

Even sae, as I say it, neither us nor oor guardians, wha we need tae educate, can ever become muisicil until we and they ken the essential shapes o' notes, in aw their combinations, and can recognise them and their copies wherever they are fund, no disrespectin' them either in wee things or big, but believin' them aw tae be within the realm o' yin airt and study.

Absolutely.

An whan a braw soul is in harmony wi' a braw face, and the twa are cast in yin mould, that will be the bonniest sicht tae him wha has an ee tae see it?

The bonniest indeed.

An the bonniest is aa the mair luvie?

That can be assumed.

An the man wha has the spirit o' harmony will be maist in luve wi' the luviest; but he winnae luve him wha is o' an inharmonious saul?

That's true, he replied, if the lack is in his soul; but if it's juist a wee flaw in the body o' the other fella, he'll be patient wi' it, and will luve him a' the same.

I can see, I said, that ye have or have had experiences o' this kind, and I agree. But lat me ask ye anither question: Dis an owerabundance o' pleasure hae onythin' tae dae wi' temperance?

Hoo could it? he replied; pleasure robs a man o' the use o' his faculties juist as much as pain dis.

Or onythin' tae dae wi' virtue in general?

None ava.

Or onythin' tae dae wi' wildness and lack o' self-control?

Aye, a massive amount.

An is there ony greater or keener pleasure than that o' the flesh?

No, nor a mair crazed yin.

Whereas true love is a love o' beauty and order - temperate and harmonious?

Absolutely true, he said.

Then nae lack o' self-control or madness shoud be alloued tae get near true love?

Certainly not.

Then crazed or oot-o'-control pleasure maun never be alloued tae come near the lover and his beloved; neither o' them can hae onything tae dae wi' it if their love is the richt sort?

No, indeed, Socrates, it maun never come near them.

Then I assume that in the city that we're foondin' ye wid mak a law sayin' that a friend shouldnae uise ony mair familiarity wi' his love than a faither wid uise wi' his son, and then only for a noble purpose, and he maun hae the other's consent first; and this rule is tae limit him in aw his interactions, and he's never tae be seen gaun any further, or, if he goes ower the line, he's tae be seen as guilty o' coarseness and bad manners.

I absolutely agree, he said.

That's a braw wey tae end oor discussion o' music; for whit better end could music hae than the love o' beauty?

I agree, he said.

Efter music comes gymnastics, whilk oor young fowk will learn next.

Certainly.

Gymnastics as weel as music shoud begin in the early years; the trainin' in it shoud be careful and continue throu life. Noo my belief is - and this is somethin' I wid like tae hear yer opinion on tae back me up, but whit I believe is - that it's no the case that a braw body improves the soul juist bi bein' physically braw, but on the contrair, it's the guid soul that improves the body as far as that's possible, thro' her ain excellence. Whit dae ye say tae that?

Aye, I agree.

Then, tae the mind whan it's been properly trained, we'll be richt in giein' ower the mair specific care o' the body; and tae avoid gaun oan ower lang, we'll juist gie the general ideas o' the subject the noo.

Sounds good.

That they maun steer clear o' gettin' drunk has already been said by us; for o' aw fowk a guardian shoud be the last yin tae get bladdered and no ken whaur he is in the hale world.

Aye, he said; it wid be pure ridiculous for a guardian tae need anither guardian tae tak care o' him.

But next, whit are we gonnae say aboot their food; for these men are trainin' for the biggest competition o' aw - are they no?

Aye, he said.

An will the wey o' bein' healthy that oor regular athletes hae be suitable for them?

Whit's wrang wi' it?

I'm feart, I said, that the wey o' bein' healthy that they hae is a bit o' a drowsy business, and can be rather dangerous for their health. Dinnae ye notice that these athletes sleep awa their lives, and are likely tae catch some real nasty illnesses if they stray, even a wee bit, fae their usual routine?

Aye, I dae see that.

Then, I said, a brawèr wey o' bein' healthy will be needit for oor warrior athletes, wha hae tae be like waukrife dug्स (dugzs - dogs) and see and hear wi' the maist extreme keenness; amang the mony changes o' watter and aa o' food, o' simmer heat and winter cauldh that they will hae tae bide throu whan they're on a campaign, they maunna be likely tae break doon in their health.

That's whit I think an aw.

The real guid wey o' bein' healthy is like a twin sister tae that simple music that we were juist speakin' aboot a wee while syne.

Hoo sae?

Weel, I imagine there's a wey o' bein' healthy that, juist like oor music, is simple and guid; and especially the military wey o' bein' healthy.

Whit dae ye mean?

Whit I mean can be learned frae Homer; he, ye ken, feeds his heroes at their feasts, whan they're on campaign, on sodjer's fare; they dinnae get fish, even though they're on the shores o' the Hellespont, and they're no alloued boiled meats but juist roasted, whilk is the food that's maist handy for sodjers, only needin' them tae licht a fire, and no haein' the fash o' carryin' aboot pots and pans.

True.

An I cannae be far wrang in sayin' that sweet sauces are never mentioned in Homer. But him tellin' them no tae hae them isnae somethin' special; aw professional athletes ken weel that a man wha wants tae be in guid nick shoudnae eat onything o' that kind.

Aye, he said; and kennin' this, they're absolutely richt in no takin' them.

Then ye widnae approve o' fancy dinners like they hae in Syracuse, and aw the posh Sicilian cookin'?

I think no' either.

An if a man is tae be in top nick, wid ye alloo him tae hae some fancy Corinthian lassie as his special lady friend?

Absolutely no wey.

Nae mair wid ye approve o' the fancy nibbles, as fowk like tae ca' them, o' Athenian bakers?

Certainly not.

Aw that kind o' eatin' and livin' can be richtly compared by us tae melodies and sangs composed in that ower-complex panharmonic style, and in aw the rhythms. Exactly.

There, complexity made a hale lot o' freedom o' behaviour, and here it made disease; whitras simplicity in music wis the parent o' temperance in the soul; and simplicity in bein' healthy wis the parent o' health in the body.

Absolutely true, he said.

But whan intemperance and disease become rife in a state, coortrooms and places tae see doctors are aye bein' opened; and the airts o' the doctor and the lawyer gie themsels airs, seein' hoo keen baith the slaves and the free fowk o' a city are aboot them.

Of course.

An yet whit greater pruif can there be o' a bad and shameful state o' education than this, that no juist trades fowk and the ordinary folk need the skills o' top doctors and judges, but aa the fowk wha say they've had a posh education? Is it noe shameful, and a real sign o' a lack o' manners, that a man should need tae gang abroad tae get his law and medicine sorts oot because he has nane o' his ain at hame, and maun therefore gie himsel ower intae the haunds o' ither men wha he maks lords and judges ower him?

O' aw things, he said, that's the maist shameful thing possible.

Wid ye say "maist" I replied, whan ye consider that there's a far waur level o' this puckle that a man disnae jist end up spendin' his hale life in court, either pursuin' fowk or bein' pursued himsel, but is actually led bi his bad taste tae be proud o' bein' so litigious; he thinks he's a master o' dishonesty; able tae tak every dodgy wee turn, and squirm in and oot o' every hole, bendin' like a willow branch and gettin' oot o' the wey o' justice: an aw for whit? - juist tae win wee points that arenae worth mentionin', no kennin' that livin' his life in a wey that lets him avoid needin' a judge who's aye nappin' is a far higher and nobler thing. Isnae that even mair shameful?

Aye, he said, that is even mair shameful.

Weel, I said, and tae need the help o' medicine, no whan a wund needs curin', or whan there's a nasty bug gaun aboot, but juist because, bi bein' lazy and livin' the kind o' life we've been speakin' aboot, fowk fill themsels up wi' watter and wind, like their bodies are a bog, forcin' the clever sons o' Asclepius tae come up wi' mair names for illnesses, like flatulence and catarrh; isnae that a disgrace an aw?

Aye, he said, they certainly dae gie some very strange and newfangled names tae diseases.

Aye, I said, and I dinnae believe that there were any sic diseases in the days o' Asclepius; and this I can guess at frae the fact that the hero Eurypylus, after he's been wounded in Homer, drinks a potion o' Pramnian wine well sprinkled wi' barley meal and grated cheese, whilk are certainly things that wid mak it waur, and yet the sons o' Asclepius wha were at the Trojan war dinnae blame the lassie wha gies him the drink, or gie it oot tae Patroclus, wha's lookin' after him.

Weel, he said, that wis surely an extraordinary drink tae gie tae a fella in his condition.

No sae extraordinary, I replied, if ye keep in mind that in the auld days, as fowk generally say, afore the time o' Herodicus, the doctors disnae practise oor current wey o' treatin' folk, whilk ye could say basically trains diseases up. But Herodicus, bein' a trainer himsel, and bein' a sickly fellae, bi a mix o' trainin' and doctorin' came up wi' a wey o' torturin' first and foremost himsel, and then the rest o' the world.

Hoo wis that then? he said.

Weel, bi comin' up wi' the idea o' a slow an' lingerin' daith; for he had a deadly sickness that he wis aye daein' his best tae haud at bay, and since gettin' better wisnae an option, he spent his hale life as a sickly fellae; he couldnae dae onything but tak care o' himsel, and wis in constant agony ony time he strayed even a wee bit fae his usual routine. Sae, dyin' slowly, wi' the help o' science he struggled on till he wis auld.

That wis a braw reward for his skills!

Aye, I said; a reward that a fella could fairly expect wha niver understood that, if Asclepius didnae teach his descendents the airts o' a sickly fellae, it wisnae acause he wisnae ignirant or inexperienced in that branch o' medicine, but acause he kent that in aw weel-run states every single person has a job they need tae dae, and so they dinnae hae the free time tae jist be ill aw the time. We see this wi tradesmen, but funnily enough, we dinnae apply the same rule tae fowk who are richer.

Whit dae ye mean? he said.

I mean this: Whin a carpenter is ill he asks the doctor for a quick and easy cure; somethin' tae mak him pyoke, somethin' tae gie him the runs, a burnin' treatment, or maybe even surgery - these are his cures. An if some fella prescribes a special diet for him, and tells him he needs tae wrap up his heid and aw that, he'll straucht reply that he hasnae got the time tae be ill, and that he cannae see the point o' a life that's spent lookin' efter his sickness and neglectin' his usual wark. Sae, efter sayin' goodbye tae this kind o' doctor, he gaes back tae his normal habits, and either gets better and lives and carries on wi' his job, or, if his health fails, he dies and disnae hae ony mair bother.

Aye, he said, and a man in his line o' wark should only uise the airt o' medicine that far.

Disnae he hae a job? An whit guid wid there be in his life if he wisnae able tae dae it?

Absolutely true, he said.

But wi' the rich man it's different; we dinnae say that he has ony special job that he absolutely must dae, if he wants tae live.

He's generally assumed tae hae nae wirk tae dae.

Then ye nivir heard o' the sayin' o' Phocylides, that as soon as a man can mak a livin' he shoud practise bein' a guid person?

Naw, he said, I think he wid be better startin' a wee bit sooner.

Lat's no argue wi' him aboot that, I said; but instead ask oorsels: Is practicin' tae be a guid person somethin' the rich man absolutely must dae, or can he get by withoot it? An if it is somethin' he absolutely must dae, then let's ask anither question: Does this havin' a special diet tae sort oot wee problems that can stop yer mind focusin' on carpentry or ither practical skills, no dae the same thing and get in the wey o' what Phocylides wis sayin'?

There can be nae doot aboot that, he replied; takin' ower much care o' yer body, whan it goes beyond the limits o' proper exercise, is really bad for bein' a virtuous person.

Aye, absolutely, I replied, and it's juist as bad for runnin' a hoose, an airmy, or a government position; and, maist important o' aw, it disnae fit in wi' ony kind o' study or thinkin' or reflectin' on yersel - there's a constant worry that headaches and dizziness are comin' on because o' philosophy, and that stops aw practicin' or tryin' tae be truly virtuous; for a man is always thinkin' he's gettin' ill, and is aye frettin' aboot the state o' his body.

Aye, that wid likely be true enough.

An therefore oor fancy doctor Asclepius can be thocht o' as only showin' the power o' his skills tae fowk wha, bein' generally in good health and wi' guid habits, hid a specific ailment; these fowk he cured wi' purges and operations, and tellt them tae get on wi' their lives as normal, considerin' the best interests o' the state here; but bodies that were completely riddled wi' disease, he widnae hae tried tae cure them wi' slow processes o' gettin' rid o' things and puttin' things in: he didnae want tae draw oot the lives o' fowk wha werenae ony use, or tae hae weak fathers havin' even weaker sons; if a man couldnae live a normal life then it wisnae his job tae cure him; for a cure like that widnae hae been ony use either tae the man himsel, or tae the state.

Then, he said, ye see Asclepius as a statesman o' some kind.

Clearly; and his character is shown even mair bi his sons. Mind ye that they were heroes in the auld days and practised the medicines o' whilk I'm speakin' at the siege o' Troy: Ye'll mind hoo, whan Pandarus wounded Menelaus, they suckit the bluid oot o' the wund, and pit on soothin' remedies, but they never telt the patient whit tae eat or drink efterwards in the case o' Menelaus, any mair than they did wi' Eurypylus; the remedies, as they thocht, were enough tae heal ony man wha wis healthy and wi' guid habits afore he wis wounded; and even if he did happen tae sup a posset o' Pramnian wine, he micht get better aw the same. But they widnae hae onything tae dae wi' folk wha were unhealthy and intemperate, wha's lives wur o' nae use either tae themsels or ithers; the airt o' medicine wisnae meant for their guid, and even if they were as rich as Croesus, the sons o' Asclepius wid hae said no tae treatin' them.

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