Beuk VI

And thus, Glaucon, efter the argument’s gean a weary wey, the true an the fause philosophers hae at last come in sicht.

I dinnae think, he said, that the wey could hae been shortened.

I suppose no, I said; an yet I believe that we micht hae had a better view o baith o them if the discussion could hae been confined tae this yin subject an if there were nae mony ither questions lyin in wait for us, whilk he wha desires tae see in whit wey the life o the jüst differs frae that o the unjust maun consider.

An whit is the neist question? he asked.

Surely, I said, the yin whilk follaes neist in order. Insae far as philosophers anerly are able tae grasp the eternal an unchangeable, an those wha wander in the region o the mony an variable are no philosophers, I maun ask ye whilk o the twa classes sud be the rulers o oor State?

An hoo can we answer that question richtly?

Whichever o the twa are best able tae guard the laws an institutions o oor State – lat them be oor guardians.

Very guid.

Naither, I said, can there be ony question that the guardian wha is tae keep onything sud hae een rather than nae een?

There can be nae question o that.

An are no thae wha are verily an indeed wantin in the knowledge o the true bein o ilk thing, an wha hae in their souls nae clear pattern, an are unable as wi a penter’s ee tae look at the absolute truth an tae that original tae repair, an havin perfect sicht o the ither warld tae order the laws aboot beauty, guidness, juistice in this, if no already ordered, an tae guard an preserve the order o them – are no sic persons, I ask, simply blind?

Truly, he replied, they are much in that condition.

An shall they be oor guardians whan there are ithers wha, besides bein their equals in experience an fawin short o them in nae wey o virtue, also ken the very truth o ilk thing?

There can be nae reason, he said, for rejectin those wha hae this greatest o aw great qualities; they maun aye hae the first place unless they fail in some ither respect.

Suppose then, I said, that we determine hoo far they can unite this an the ither excellences.

By all means.

In the first place, as we began bi observin, the nature o the philosopher has tae be ascertained. We maun come tae an understaundin aboot him, an, whan we hae done so, then, if I am no mistaken, we shall also acknowledge that sic an union o qualities is possible, an that those in whom they are united, an those only, sud be rulers in the State.

Whit dae ye mean?

Lat us suppose that philosophical minds aye luve knowledge o a sort whilk shows them the eternal nature no varyin frae birth an corruption.

Aye.

An further, I said, lat us agree that they are lovers o aw true bein; there is nae pairt whether greater or lesser, or mair or less honourable, whilk they are willin tae renounce; as we said afore o the lover an the ambitious man.

True.

An if they are tae be whit we were describin, is there no anither quality whilk they sud aa possess?

Whit quality?

Truthfu’ness: they will niver intentionally receive intae their mind falsehood, whilk is their detestation, an they will luve the truth.

Aye, that can be safely said o them.

"May be," my friend, I replied, isnae the word; say rather "maun be affirmed:" for he whas nature is amorous o onything cannae help luvin aw that belongs or is akin tae the object o his affections.

Richt, he said.

An is there onything mair akin tae wisdom than truth?

Hoo can there be?

Can the same nature be a lover o wisdom an a lover o falsehood?

Never.

The true lover o learnin then maun fae his earliest youth, as far as in him lies, desire aw truth?

Assuredly.

But then again, as we ken bi experience, he whas desires are strang in yin direction will hae them weaker in ithers; they will be like a stream whilk has been drawn aff intae anither channel.

True.

He whas desires are drawn towards knowledge in every form will be absorbed in the pleasures o the soul, an will hardly feel bodily pleasure - I mean, if he be a true philosopher an no a pretendin ane.

That is maist certain.

Sic an ane is sure tae be temperate an the opposite o covetous; for the motives whilk mak anither man desirous o havin an spendin, hae nae place in his character.

Very true.

Anither sign o the philosophical nature haes an aa tae be considered.

Whit is that?

There sud be nae secret corner o mean-spiritedness; nothin can be mair antagonistic than pettiness tae a soul whilk is ever langin efter the hale o things baith divine an human.

Most true, he replied.

Then hoo can he who has magnificence o mind an is the observer o aw time an aw existence, think much o human life?

He cannae.

Or can sic an ane accoont death fearfu’?

Nae indeid.

Then the cowardly an mean nature has nae pairt in true philosophy?

Certainly no.

Or again: can he who is harmoniously constituted, who is no covetous or mean, or a boaster, or a coward—can he, I say, ever be unjust or harsh in his dealings?

Impossible.  Then you'll soon observe whit wey a man is jüst an gentle, or rude an unsociable; thir are the signs that distinguish even in youth the philosophical nature fae the unphilosophical.

True.

There's anither point that sud be bemerkt.

Whit point?

Whether he his ettlin or no tae learn; for nae yin will luve that which gies him pain, an in whilk efter muckle toil he maks little progress.

Certainly no.

An again, if he is forgetfu an keeps naething o whit he learns, winna he be an empty vessel?

That is certain.

Labourin in vain, he maun end in hatin himsel an his fruitless occupation? Aye.

Then a soul that forgets cannae be ranked amang genuine philosophic natures; we maun insist that the philosopher sud hae a guid memory?

Certainly.

An ance mair, the inharmonious an unseemly nature can only tend tae disproporshion?

Undoubtedly.

An dae ye consider truth tae be akin tae proporshion or tae disproportion?

Tae proporshion.

Then, besides ither qualities, we maun try tae find a naturally weel-proportioned an gracious mind, whilk will move spontaneously towards the true bein o everythin.

Certainly.

Weel, an dinnae aw thir qualities, whilk we've been enumeratin, gang thegither, an are they no, in a wey, needit for a soul, whilk is tae hae a full an perfect participation o bein?

They are absolutely necessary, he replied.

An maunna that be a blameless study whilk only he can pursue wha haes the gift o a guid memory, an is quick tae learn, -noble, gracious, the friend o truth, juistice, courage, temperance, wha are his kin?

The god o jealousy himsel, he said, could fin nae fault wi sic a study.

An tae men like him, I said, whan perfected bi years an education, an tae thir only you will entrust the State.

Socrates - ADEIMANTUS

Here Adeimantus interjected and said: Tae thir statements, Socrates, nae yin can offer a reply; but whan ye talk in this wey, a strange feelin passes ower the minds o yer listeners: They fancy that they are led astray a wee bit at each step in the argument, owin tae their ain want o skill in askin an answerin questions; thir wee bits accumulate, an at the end o the discussion they are fund tae hae sustained a michti overthrow an aw their former notions appear tae be turned upside doon. An as unskilful players o draughts are at last shut up bi their mair skilful adversaries an hae nae piece tae move, so they tae fin themsels shut up at last; for they hae naething tae say in this new game o whilk words are the coonters; an yet aw the time they are in the richt. The observation is suggested tae me bi whit is noo occurrin. For any yin o us micht say, that although in words he is no able tae meet ye at each step o the argument, he sees as a fact that the followers o philosophy, whan they carry on the study, no only in youth as a pairt o education, but as the pursuit o their maturer years, maist o them become strange monsters, no tae say utter rogues, an that those wha may be considered the best o them are made useless tae the warld bi the very study whilk ye extol.

Weel, an dae ye think that thae wha say sae are wrang?

I cannae tell, he replied; but I wid like tae ken whit is yer ain opinion.

Hear ma answer; I am o the opinion that they are quite richt.

Then hoo can ye be justified in sayin that cities winna cease frae evil until philosophers rule in them, whan philosophers are acknowledged bi us tae be o nae uise tae them?

Ye ask a question, I said, tae whilk a reply can only be gien in a parable.

Aye, Socrates; an that is a wey o speakin tae whilk ye are no ava accustumed, I suppose.

I perceive, I said, that ye are vastly amused at havin plunged me intae sic a hopeless discussion; but noo hear the parable, an then ye will be still mair amused at the pettiness o ma imagination: for the manner in whilk the best men are treated in their ain States is sae grievous that nae single thing on earth is comparable tae it; an tharefore, if I am tae plead their cause, I maun hae recourse tae fiction, an pit thegither a figure made up o mony things, like the fabulous unions o goats an stags whilk are fund in pictures. Imagine then a fleet or a ship in whilk there is a captain wha is taller an stronger than ony o the crew, but he is a wee bit deaf an has a similar infirmity in sicht, an his knowledge o navigation isnae muckle better. The sailors are fechtin wi ane anither aboot the steerin - ilka yin is o the opinion that he has a richt tae steer, though he has never learned the airt o navigation an cannae tell wha taught him or whan he learned, an will further assert that it cannae be taught, an they are ready tae cut in pieces ony yin wha says the contrar. They throng aboot the captain, beggin an prayin him tae commit the helm tae them; an if at ony time they dinnae prevail, but ithers are preferred tae them, they kill the ithers or throw them owerboard, an havin first chained up the noble captain's senses wi drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny an tak possession o the ship an mak free wi the stores; thus, eatin an drinkin, they proceed on their voyage in sic a manner as micht be expectit o them. Him wha is their pairtisan an cleverly aids them in their plot for gettin the ship oot o the captain's haunds intae their ain whether bi force or persuasion, they compliment wi the name o sailor, pilot, able seaman, an abuse the ither sort o man, wha they cry a gude-for-naething; but that the true pilot maun pay attention tae the year an seasons an sky an stars an winds, an whit else belangst tae his airt, if he intends tae be really qualified for the command o a ship, and that he maun an will be the steerer, whether ither fowk like or not - the possibility o this union o authority wi the steerer's airt has never seriously entered intae their thochts or been made pairt o their callin. Noo in vessels whilk are in a state o mutiny an bi sailors wha are mutineers, hoo will the true pilot be regarded? Will he no be cried bi them a pratter, a star-gazer, a gude-for-naething?

Of course, said Adeimantus.

Then ye will hardly need, I said, tae hear the interpretation o the figure, whilk describes the true philosopher in his relation tae the State; for ye understaun already.

Certainly.

Then suppose ye noo tak this parable tae the gentleman wha is surprised at findin that philosophers hae nae honour in their cities; explain it tae him an try tae convince him that their havin honour wid be far mair extraordinary.

I will.

Say tae him, that, in deemin the best votaries o philosophy tae be useless tae the rest o the warld, he is richt; but an aa tell him tae attribute their uselessness tae the fault o thae wha winna use them, an no tae themsels. The pilot sudnae humbly beg the sailors tae be commanded bi him - that is no the order o nature; neither are 'the wise tae go tae the doors o the rich' - the ingenious author o this sayin telt a lie - but the truth is, that, whan a man is ill, whether he be rich or poor, tae the physician he maun go, and he wha wants tae be governed, tae him who is able tae govern. The ruler wha is ony guid at his job sudnae gang beggin his subjects tae be ruled bi him; although the current lot o governors o mankind are cut frae a different claith; they micht juistly be compared tae the mutiny sailors, an the true helmsmen tae thae wha are cried bi them gude-for-naethings an star-gazers.

Precisly sae, he said.

For thir reasons, an amang men like thir, philosophy, the noblest pursuit o aw, is unlikely tae be held in much regard bi thae o the opposite faction; no that the greatest an maist lastin skaith is done tae her bi her opponents, but bi her ain professin followers, the same o wha ye assume the accuser tae say, that the greater nummer o them are oot an oot rogues, an the best are useless; in whilk opinion I agreed.

Aye.

An the reason why the guid are useless has noo been explained?

True.

Then shall we proceed tae show that the corruption o the majority is an aa unavoidable, an that this isnae tae be laid til the chairge o philosophy ony mair than the ither?

By all means.

An let's ask an answer in turn, first gaun back tae the description o the gentle an noble nature. Truth, as ye'll mind, wis his leader, wha he follaeed aye an in aw things; failin in this, he wis a faudge, an had nae pairt or lot in true philosophy.

Aye, that wis said.

Weel, an isnae this yin quality, tae mention nae ithers, greatly at variance wi present notions o him?

Certainly, he said.

An dinnae we hae a richt tae say in his defence, that the true lover o knowledge is aye strivin efter bein - that is his nature; he willnae rest in the multitude o individual things whilk is an appearance only, but will gang on - the keen edge willnae be blunted, nor the force o his desire abate until he has attained the knowledge o the true nature o every essence bi a sympathetic an kindred pouer in the soul, an bi that pouer drawin near an minglin an becomin incorporate wi vera bein, havin begotten mind an truth, he will hae knowledge an will live an grow truly, an then, an no till then, will he cease fae his travail.

Naething, he said, can be mair juist than sic a description o him.

An will the luve o a lie be ony pairt o a philosopher's nature? Will he no utterly hate a lie?

He will.

An whan truth is the captain, we cannae suspect ony evil o the band whilk he leads?

Impossible.

Juistice an health o mind will be o the company, an temperance will follow efter?

True, he replied.

Naither is there ony reason why I sud again set in array the philosopher's virtues, as ye will doubtless mind that courage, magnificence, apprehension, memory, were his natural gifts. An ye objected that, although nae yin could deny whit I then said, still, if ye leave words an look at facts, the fowk wha are thus described are some o them manifestly useless, an the greater nummer utterly depraved; we were then led tae enquire intae the grunds o thir accusations, an hae noo arrived at the point o askin why are the majority bad, whilk question o necessity brocht us back tae the examination an definition o the true philosopher.

Exactly.

An we hae next tae consider the corruption o the philosophic nature, why sae mony are spoiled an sae few escape spoilin - I am speakin o thae wha were said tae be useless but no wicked -an, whan we hae done wi them, we will speak o the imitators o philosophy, what manner o men are they wha aspire efter a profession whilk is abune them an o whilk they are unworthy, an then, bi their manifold inconsistencies, bring upon philosophy, an upon aw philosophers, that universal reprobation o whilk we speak.

Whit are thir corruptions? he said.

I'll see if I can explain them tae ye. Every yin will agree that a nature havin in perfection aw the qualities whilk we needit in a philosopher, is a rare plant that's seldom seen amang men.

Rare indeed.

An whit countless and pouerful causes tend tae destroy thir rare natures!

Whit causes?

In the first place there are their ain virtues, their courage, temperance, an the rest o them, every yin o whilk qualities is praiseworthy (an this is a maist uncommon circumstance) but it can destroy an lead astray frae philosophy the soul that haes them.

That is very strange, he replied.

Then there are aw the ordinary guid things o life - beauty, wealth, strength, rank, an great connections in the State - ye ken the sort o things - these an aa hae a corruptin an distractin effect.

I understand; but I wid like tae ken mair precisely whit ye mean aboot them.

See the truth as a hail, an in the richt wey; ye will then hae nae difficulty in gettin a grip o the previous remarks, an they winna langer appear strange tae ye.

An hoo am I tae dae sae? he asked.

Weel, I said, we ken that aw germs or seeds, whether vegetable or animal, whan they fail tae meet wi proper nourishment or climate or soil, in proportion tae their vigour, are aw the mair sensitive tae the want o a suitable environment, for evil is a greater enemy tae whit is guid than whit isnae.

Very true.

There is reason in supposing that the finest natures, whan unner alien conditions, tak mair skaith than the inferior, because the contrast is greater.

Certainly.

An can we no say, Adeimantus, that the maist gifted minds, whan they are ill-educate, become especially bad? Disnae great crimes an the spirit o pure evil spring oot o a fulness o nature ruined bi education rather than frae any inferiority, whereas weak natures are scarcely capable o any very great guid or very great evil?

There I think that you are richt.

An oor philosopher follaes the same analogy - he is like a plant whilk, havin proper nourishment, maun necessarily grow an mature intae aw virtue, but, if saaed an plantit in an alien soil, becomes the maist noxious o aw weeds, unless he be preserved bi some divine pouer. Dis ye really think, as fowk sae aft say, that oor youth are corrupted bi Sophists, or that private teachers o the airt corrupt them in any degree worth speakin o? Arenae the public wha say thir things the greatest o aw Sophists? An disnae they educate tae perfection young an auld, men an weemen alike, an shape them efter their ain herts?

Whin is this accomplished? he said.

Whun they a' get thegither, an the hale world sits doun at a gatherin, or in a court o law, or a playhoose, or a camp, or ony ither popular place, an there's a muckle din, an they praise some things that are bein said or dune, an blame ithers, baith exaggeratin baith wey, shoutin an dingin their hands, an the echo o the rocks an the place whaur they are gaithered dobbin back the soun o the praise or blame - at sic a time will no a young man's heart, as they say, loup within him? Will ony private trainin enable him tae staund firm against the owerwhelmin flood o public opinion? Or will he be wisht awa bi the stream? Will he no juist hae the same notions o whit is guid an evil as the public in general hae - he will dae as they dae, an as they are, sic will he be?

Aye, Socrates; necessity will compel him.

An yet, I said, there's an even greater necessity, whilk hasnae been mentioned.

Whit is that?

The gentle force o bein declared guilty or havin yer things confiscatit or bein put tae deid whilk, as ye ken weel, thir new Sophists an educators who are the public, apply whan their words are powerless.

They dae that indeed; and in richt guid earnest.

Noo whit opinion o ony ither Sophist, or o ony private person, can be expectit tae win in sic an unequal contest?

Nane, he replied.

No, indeed, I said, even tae mak the attempt is a great piece o foolishness; there naither is, nor has been, nor is ever likely tae be, any different type o character whilk has had nae ither trainin in virtue but that whilk is supplied bi public opinion - I speak, my friend, o human virtue only; whit is mair than human, as the proverb says, isnae included: for I widnae hae ye ignorant that, in the present evil state o governments, whitsoever is saved an comes tae guid is saved bi the pouer o God, as we may truly say.

I quite agree, he replied.

Then let me crave yer assent an aa tae a further observation.

Whit are ye gaun tae say?

Weel, that aw thae mercenary individuals, wha the mony cry Sophists an wha they consider tae be their enemies, dae, in fact, teach nothin but the opinion o the mony, that is tae say, the opinions o their assemblies; an this is their wisdom. I micht compare them tae a man wha should study the moods an desires o a michty strang beast who is fed bi him- he wid learn hoo tae approach an handle him, an aa at whit times an frae whit causes he is dangerous or the reverse, an whit is the meanin o his several cries, an bi whit sounds, whan anither utters them, he is soothed or infuriated; an ye may suppose further, that whan, bi continually attendin upon him, he has become perfect in all this, he calls his knowledge wisdom, an maks o it a system or airt, whilk he proceeds tae teach, although he has nae real notion o whit he means bi the principles or passions o whilk he is speakin, but calls this honourable an that dishonourable, or guid or evil, or juist or unjust, aw in accordance wi the tastes an tempers o the great brute. Guid he declares tae be that in whilk the beast delights an evil tae be that whilk he dislikes; an he can gie nae ither account o them except that the juist an noble are the necessary, havin never himsel seen, an havin nae pouer o explainin tae ithers the nature o either, or the difference atween them, whilk is immense. Bi hivins, widnae sic an yin be a rare educator?

Aye, that wid he be.

An in whit wey dis the yin wha thinks that wisdom is the discernmont o the tempers an tastes o the motley crowd, whether in paintin or music, or, finally, in politics, differ frae him whom I have been describin? For whan a chiel hauds company wi the mony, an shows them his poem or ither wark o airt or the service whilk he has dune the State, makin them his judges whan he isnae obligated, the sae-ca'd necessity o Diomede will oblige him tae produce whitsoever they praise. An yet the reasons are uttery ridiculous whilk they gie in support o their ain notions aboot the honourable an guid. Did ye ever hear ony o them that wisnae?

Naw, nor am I likely tae.

Ye ken the truth o whit I have been sayin? Then let me ask ye tae consider further whether the warld will ever be made tae believe in the existence o absolute beauty rather than o the many bonnie things, or o the absolute in ilk kind rather than o the many in ilk kind?

Certainly no.

Then the warld cannae possibly be a philosopher?

Impossible.

An therefore philosophers maun inevitably fae under the censure o the warld?

They maun.

An o fowk wha haud company wi the mob an seek tae please them?

That's evident.

Then, dae ye see any wey in whilk the philosopher can be preserved in his callin tae the end? An mind whit we were sayin o him, that he wis tae hae quickness an memory an courage an magnificence - these were admitted bi us tae be the true philosopher's gifts.

Aye.

Will no sic an yin frae his early bairnheid be in aw things first amang aw, especially if his bodily gifts are like his mental anes?

Certainly, he said.

An his friends an fellow-citizens will want tae use him as he gets aulder for their ain purposes?

No doubt aboot it.

Fawin at his feet, they will mak requests tae him an dae him honour an flatter him, because they want tae get intae their haunds noo, the pouer whilk he will ae day possess.

That aftens happens, he said.

An whit will a man sic as him be likely tae dae unner sic circumstances, especially if he be a citizen o a great city, rich an noble, an a braw lad? Will he no be fu o boundless ambitions, an fancy himsel able tae manage the affairs o Greeks an o barbarians, an havin got sic notions intae his heid will he no blaw himsel up an elevate himsel in the fulness o vain pomp an senseless pride?

Tae be sure he will.

Noo, whan he is in this state o mind, if some yin comes gently tae him an tells him that he is a gowk an maun get understanin, whilk can only be got bi slavin for it, dae ye think that, unner sic unfavourable circumstances, he will be easily induced tae listen?

Far far different, is how it goes. Even if some yin, throu inherent goodness or natural wiseness, has gotten their eyes peeled open a wee bit and is humbled and gotten hold o' by philosophy, whit dae their pals dae whin they think they're gaun tae lose the advantage they hoped tae get fae his company? Will they no dae and say onythin' tae stop him frae giein' in tae his better nature and tae mak his teacher useless, usin' wee private blethers as weel as public accusations?

There's nae doot aboot it.

An' hoo can someone stuck in that kinna situation ever become a philosopher?

Nae chance.

Then were we no richt sayin' that even the very qualities that mak a man a philosopher could, if he's ill-educated, steer him awa' fae philosophy, nae less than riches and their fancy trappings and the ither so-called guid things in life?

We were spot on.

Thus, my guid friend, is hoo aw that ruin and failure I've been describin' comes aboot for the folk best suited tae the best pursuit o' aw; they're fowk we reckon are rare at ony time; this bein' the group whaur the fowk come fae that dae the maist harm tae nations and fowk; and an aw the maist guid whin the tide taks them in that direction; but a wee man wis never the yin tae dae onything great, niver for fowk or nations.

That's absolutely true, he said.

An' so philosophy is left desolate, wi her marriage ceremony incomplete: for her ain fowk hae faunered awa' and left her, and while they're livin' a falsh and ungainly life, ither folk that are no worthy, seein' she's nae kin tae protect her, come in and dishonour her; and stick on her the reproaches that, as ye say, her critics hurl, wha say o' her followers that some are useless, and that the maist o' them deserve the harshest punishment.

That's certainly whit fowk say.

Aye; and whit else wid ye expect, I said, whin ye think o' the scrawny wee things wha, seein' this land open tae them – a land weel-stocked wi' braw names and flashy titles – like prisoners rinnin' oot o' jail intae a sanctuary, tak a leap oot o' their trades intae philosophy; thae ones that dae sae bein', maist likely, the cleverest wee souls at their ain miserable crafts? For, though philosophy is in this puckle, there's still a dignity aboot her that ye cannae find in the trades. An' mony are drawn tae her bi that wha hae imperfect natures and wha's souls are crippled and disfigured bi their pettinesses, like their bodies are bi their trades and crafts. Is that no unavoidable?

Aye.

Are they no just like a wee glaikit tinkerer wha's juist gotten oot o' the clink and intae a fortune? He gies himsel a scrub and chucks on a braw new claes, and gets himsel a' dolled up like a bridegroom gaun tae wed his maister's dochter, wha's left puir and miserable?

A perfect wee analogy.

Whit kin o' bairns will come fae sic marriages? Will they no be sumthin' vile and wrang?

There's nae doot aboot it.

An' whin fowk that are no worthy o' an education try tae hitch themsels up wi' philosophy, wha's way ootae their league, whit kin o' ideas and thochts are likely tae come oot o' it? Will they no be daft blethers that sound braw tae the lug, but hae naethin' true or honest or onything like real wisdom in them?

Nae doot, he said.

Then, Adeimantus, I said, the proper students o' philosophy will be a wee tiny crowd: maybe some posh and weel-learned fella, stuck servin' her throu exile, wha bides loyal in the absence o' ony bad influences; or some high-minded soul born in a rotten town, whae politics he despises and ignores; and there micht be a wheen gifted fowk wha leave the trades, that they rightly look doon on, and come tae her; or maybe there's some that are held back bi oor pal Theages' bridle; for everything in Theages' life wis pushin' him awa' fae philosophy; but his bad health kept him oot o' politics. Ma ain story aboot the inner sign is hardly worth mentionin', for there's never been, or hardly ever been, sic a guardian angel gien tae ony ither man. Fowk that are in this wee group hae gotten a taste o' hoo sweet and blessed it is tae hae philosophy, and they've seen enough o' the hale multitude gaun mental; and they ken that nae politician is honest, nor is there ony champion o' jestice that they can fight alangside and be saved. Sic a yin could be likened tae a fella wha's fallen in amang wild beasts - he winna dae the same wickedness as his mates, but he cannae on his ain resist aw their fierceness, and so seein' that he wid be nae use tae the kintra or his friends, and thinkin' that he wid hae tae throw his life awa' withoot doin' ony guid tae himsel or onybody else, he keeps his gob shut and goes his ain wey. He's like yin wha, in a storm o' dust and hail that the blawin' wind is hurrin' alang, shelters himsel unner a wa'; and seein' the rest o' humanity full o' wickedness, he's happy enough, jist if he can live his ain life and be pure o' evil or injustice, and gang awa' in peace and guid will, wi braw hopes.

Aye, he said, and he'll hae done a braw job afore he goes.

A braw job - aye; but no the best, unless he finds a kintra that suits him; for in a kintra that's richt for him, he'll grow mair and be the savior o' his hameland, as weel as himsel.

Richt, that's enough noo aboot whit gars philosophy get sic a bad name; we've shown hoo the accusations against her are juist wrang - is there onything mair ye want tae say?

Nae mair on that juist noo, he said; but I wid like tae ken whilk o' the governments that are aboot the day is the yin ye think best suits her.

Nane o' them, I said; and that's juist the accusation I hiv against them - nane o' them are worthy o' a philosophical nature, and that's whit maks that nature get twisted and estranged; - like an exotic seed that gets plantit in a foreign land and turns intae something different, and gets walloped and loses itself in the new soil, even sae this growth o' philosophy, instead o' stayin' the same, turns bad and becomes something else. But if philosophy ever finds a state that's as perfect as she is hersel, then we'll see that she truly is godly, and that aw ither things, whether it be the nature o' men or institutions, are juist human; - and now, I ken ye're gaun tae ask whit that State is.

Naw, he said; ye're wrang there, for I wis gaun tae ask anither question - is it the State that we thocht up and made oorsels, or some ither yin?

Aye, I said, oor ain in maist weyis; but ye might mind me sayin' afore, that some yin in authority wid aye be needed in the State that hauds the same ideas aboot the constitution that hed ye when ye wis makin' the laws as oor leader.

That wis said, he said.

Aye, but no in a braw wey; ye flegget us wi' yer objections, that certainly showed the discussion wid be lang and fashous; and whit's still left isnae easy.

Whit's left?

The question o' hoo the study o' philosophy can be set up so that it disnae ruin the State: Aw great tries are risky; 'hard is the good,' as fowk say.

Still, he said, lat's get this sorted oot, and then the enquiry will be finished.

I winna be stoppit bi ony lack o' will, I said, but, if at aw, bi a lack o' power: ye can see for yersels that I'm keen; and pit attention tae whit I'm aboot tae say, see hoo boldly and straicht-awa I say that States sud pursue philosophy, no like they dae the day, but in a different wey.

In whit wey?

Juist now, I said, the students o' philosophy are far ower young; startin' barely oot o' bairnhood, they only pit the time they save fae makin' siller and lookin' efter the hoose intae sic pursuits; and even them that are thocht tae hae the maist o' the philosophic spirit, whin they come in sicht o' the real difficulty o' the subject, I mean dialectic, they juick aff. Later in life whin invited bi some yin else, they micht, perhaaps, gang and listen tae a lecture, and they mak a great fuss aboot this, for philosophy isnae considered bi them tae be their main business: at last, whin they grow auld, in maist cases they snuff it oot mair truly than Heracleitus' sun, insae far as they never leuk up again.

But whit wey sud they be gaun aboot it?

Juist the opposite. In bairnhood and youth their studies, and whit philosophy they learn, sud be suited tae their weans years: durin' this time while they're growin' up intae men, the main and special care sud be gien tae their bodies that they may hae them tae use in the service o' philosophy; as life advances and the intellect begins tae mature, lat them step up the gymnastics o' the soul; but whin the strength o' oor citizens fails and is past bein' uised for ceevil and military duties, then lat them wander free and dae nae serious labour, as we want them tae live happily here, and tae croon this life wi' a similar happiness in the next.

Thon wis a richt earnest spier, Socrates! I can see that; but maist o' yer audience, if I'm no wrang, are likely tae be even mair deid set against ye, and they'll never be convinced; Thrasymachus least o' aw.

Dinna mak a fecht atween Thrasymachus and me, I said, seein' as we've juist become pals, vaikka we never really wis enemies; for I'll keep tryin' ma very best until I either turn him and ither fowk roon, or dae something that micht benefit them whin the time comes that they live again, and hae the same kin o' blethers in anither world.

Ye're talkin' aboot a time that's no that close.

Maair like, I said, it's a time that's nothin' compared tae eternity. Houiver, I cannae wonder that mony fowk refuse tae believe it; for they've never seen whit we're speakin' aboot noo actually happen. They've only seen a pretendin' version o' philosophy, made up o' fancy words strung thegither, no like oorsels here that hae a natural connection. But a human bein' wha in word and deed is perfectly formed, as far as possible, intae the shape and image o' virtue - sic a fellae rulin' a city that reflects the same image, they've never seen that afore, neither yin nor a wheen o' them - dae ye think they ever did?

Nae chance.

No, ma friend, and they've seldom, if ever, heard free and noble thochts; like the kind fowk spik whin they're earnestly and tryin' everything they can tae seek oot the truth for the sake o' learnin', while they look on cauldy at the wee tricks o' arguments, whaur the end o' it aw is juist opinions and fechtin', whether they come across them in the courts or oot and aboot.

They're strangers, he said, tae the words ye speak o'.

An' this wis whit we thocht we micht see comin', and this wis the reason why truth garred us admit, no withoot fear and some fankle, that neither cities nor states nor individual fowk will ever get it richt until that wee group o' philosophers that we called useless but no bad are, by some act o' providence, made tae tak care o' the State whether they like it or no, and until a similar need is pit on the State tae obey them; or until kings, or if no kings, then the sons o' kings or princes, are divinely inspired wi' a true love o' true philosophy. That either or baith o' thir options are impossible, I see nae reason tae say: if they wur, we micht juistly be laughed at as dreamers and dafties. Am I no richt?

Spot on.

‍